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A Maniacīs Drake Cavalry

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scarletsquig
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2011, 05:05:36 am »

It's looking good, but I agree, it's definitely looking quite stubby and more orc-like. I really think some front legs would help a lot.

I think the reason this is proving difficult is the concept... there's a lot of things that have to fit on the sculpt and work together.

Lizard riders are a tough nut to crack. Remember, GW made 3 different versions that people hated before Jes Goodwin finally nailed it with the cold ones.

And the GW ones don't even have wings - those are an even bigger headache on top of what is already a tricky sculpt, especially if you want them to rank up.

I'm starting to think the concept might be best served by treating them like units of pegasi.. on 40x40 bases. The wings need space to spread out.
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mattjgilbert
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2011, 07:26:45 pm »

I think that having a Goblin ride it would be an excellent alternative to the standard Goblin=Wolf cavalry option. Nice work on the teeth and wings mate.

Perhaps a couple of small spines at the end of the tail on either side to make it an offensive or defensive weapon? Otherwise a tail fin which would help stabilise flight?
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WorkbenchManiac
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2011, 12:44:22 am »

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep īem coming.

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Would love to see you put some horns on the head, an orc rider on the back and make some Slasha Cavalry, that'd be awesome
How about a helmet with blades on the sides instead of horns?


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I really think some front legs would help a lot.
If I were to put front legs on it, it would look a lot like Euparkeria with bat wings.

But itīs too late for another set of limbs. The model as it is has no room for them, and I like the more "realistic" four-limbed body.


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I'm starting to think the concept might be best served by treating them like units of pegasi.. on 40x40 bases. The wings need space to spread out.
Doesnīt the drakon cavalry stand on 50x50mm bases? At leasts that what I assumed when I started.  40x40mm would be possible, but harder to rank up, smaller than that would be impossible.


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I think that having a Goblin ride it would be an excellent alternative to the standard Goblin=Wolf cavalry option.
Wolfs as mounts for Goblins are played out, I agree. But I really canīt see a Goblin riding this. Maybe Iīm still stuck in the GW "goblins are comedic relief" mindset.


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Perhaps a couple of small spines at the end of the tail on either side to make it an offensive or defensive weapon? Otherwise a tail fin which would help stabilise flight?
I have thought about adding some kind of thagomizer, but decided against it, because I felt it would be too ver the top. "Less is more" and all that.

But a tail fin is an interesting idea. Iīll give it some thought. Do you have any specific designs in mind?
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mattjgilbert
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 08:20:55 pm »

Nothing specific. Options are rounded, pointed or spilt I guess. I'm not sure which would work the best.
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Da Boss
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 03:17:27 pm »

I love these- I keep looking at them and thinking "THIS is what mantic should have done."
I am optimistic that they will look cool with the riders on, too. Are you going to use the stock riders? Any shots possible of a rider white tacked on for us to ponder?
Great work though.
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Nightsword
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2011, 04:46:03 pm »

Drakons are 40mm bases Smiley

http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/units/windrider.shtml

 Wink

Pretty please??
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WorkbenchManiac
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2011, 01:08:40 pm »

@ Night Sword: Iīve now had the opportunity to put a Manitc orc besides the wyvern, and the orc is simply too large.

Ok, time for an update. I tried the neck frill, but my first draft does not look so hot IMO:

Please ignore the clutter, there is a reason itīs called "manic workbench"...
Those are just some green stuff copies I made via push-mold from the original neck frill I sculpted, so please excuse the thickness of the frill.

Maybe Iīll try another frill design, one without the spines running through it, more like an actual frill-necked lizard than the dilophosaurus from Jurassic Park. Weīll see.

But meanwhile I nearly finished the beast:

click image for larger version
Still needs a bit work on the wings, smoothing out tough areas, but itīs nearly done.
Iīd especially like some feedback on the underside of the neck and belly. IMO it looked too scrawny previously, but I might just have went a bit far into the opposite direction.

And I have blu-tacked him onto a 40mm base, he fits it very well.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 01:22:38 pm by WorkbenchManiac » Report Spam   Logged

scarletsquig
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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2011, 01:31:41 pm »

As for the underside of the neck, I would keep the extra belly bulk, but reconsider the convex "bulge" underneath and instead go for a slimmer look towards the end of the neck. The bulge seems to be adding too much bulk and also interfering with the overall "S" shape of the sculpt by adding a bump to it.

Something like this, maybe, or not as drastic, just enough to smooth out the bump without taking too much away:



I realize that real-life lizards often have that flap of loose gizzard skin underneath but it's mostly slow and sluggish lizards like iguanas rather than fast-moving lizards, which are more streamlined in shape.

I can't think of a good way to add a lot of extra bulk that doesn't involve either a bigger head, or a longer neck, either of which would be quit an extensive rework. It might be best to tackle the problem of needing an orc rider by having the rider seated quite far back on the mount, where the centre of gravity looks more convincing.

Agree that the frill isn't really working at the moment, it certainly makes the model look unique though. Have you considered adding a crest to the forehead instead of the frill, or in addition to it? It could be a way of adding another lizard-like detail without it overpowering the sculpt. That said, I'm not entirely sure if it would work either since the head is styled quite short and stubby.

I like how the wings are shaping up so far, I think the tail might benefit from a sharper point at the end.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 01:41:05 pm by scarletsquig » Report Spam   Logged
WorkbenchManiac
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2011, 05:17:20 pm »

Thanks, Scarletsquig! I appreciate the in-depth feedback.

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I realize that real-life lizards often have that flap of loose gizzard skin underneath but it's mostly slow and sluggish lizards like iguanas rather than fast-moving lizards, which are more streamlined in shape.
Agreed, the lines on your mock-up look much better.


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It might be best to tackle the problem of needing an orc rider by having the rider seated quite far back on the mount, where the centre of gravity looks more convincing.
I wonīt do an orc rider. I chose the wyvernīs size with the small elves in mind, and the orc idea came up later. I already have some ideas for the elven riders, and they will not match the "knightly" look of the Drakon cavalry.


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Agree that the frill isn't really working at the moment, it certainly makes the model look unique though. Have you considered adding a crest to the forehead instead of the frill, or in addition to it?
Yes, I have. mattjgilbert suggested it, too. But Iīm not convinced it would look right, mainly due to the flat head and the position of the neck. I might give it a try, though, since I like the idea in principle.


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I like how the wings are shaping up so far, I think the tail might benefit from a sharper point at the end.
Agreed.


Thanks again!
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