Mantic Fanatics

Warpath => General Warpath Discussion => Topic started by: Nationality on June 19, 2011, 06:12:32 pm



Title: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: Nationality on June 19, 2011, 06:12:32 pm
Out of curiosity, I composed a 1,000 point, "intro" Tau army list that a new player might have, then tried to calculate costs using Mantic prices and GW prices. Here are what I used:

Tau Army List (Jungle-fighting cadre)

HQ
Shas'el [50] [total: 111]
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector [20], Flamer [4], Missle pod [12]
Command and Control Node [10], Multi-Tracker [5], Vectored Retro-Thrusters [10], Blacksun Filter [5]

Troops
Fire Warrior Team [98]
7 Shas'la, 1 Shas'ui
Photon Grenades [8]

Fire Warrior Team [98]
7 Shas'la, 1 Shas'ui
Photon Grenades [8]

Kroot Combat Squad [161]
19 Kroot, 1 Kroot Shaper

Elites
Stealth Team [117]
2 Shas'ui, 1 Shas'vre
Markerlight [10], Fusion Blaster [2]

Fast Attack
Pathfinder Team [157]
4 Shas'la, 1 Shas'ui
Photon Grenades [5]
Devilfish [80], Sensor Spines [10]

Skimmer Team [160]
1st Skimmer
Sensor Spines [10], Seeker Missile [10]
2nd Skimmer
Sensor Spines [10], Seeker Missile [10]

Heavy Support
Sniper Drone Team [80]

Standard GW price

1 Commander $30.00
2 Kroot Squads @ $35.00 ea. $70.00
1 Kroot Shaper $11.50
2 Pirahna @ $25.00 ea. $50.00
2 Pathfinder Teams @ $15.00 ea. $30.00
1 Pathfinder Shas'ui $15.00
1 Sniper Droneteam $38.00
2 Fire Warrior Teams @ $35.00 ea. $70.00
1 Tau Stealth Team $15.00
1 Devilfish $35.00

Total: $364.50

Using default, GW pricing, this army list would cost $364.50. Keep in mind I would have to buy a whole lot of additional boxes, for example, to get the 16 firewarriors I'd need I'd have to buy 2 boxes of Tau warriors (and 2 boxes of Kroot), in addition to an additional squad of Pathfinders just to get the 4 I needed.

All I have to say about this... I'm really sorry. Holy flying dungheap, that's just for a 1,000 pt army! I can't even imagine what a Imperial Guard army would cost (which is what I've always been attracted to).

Hypothetical Mantic price, if they made Tau
Extrapolating from Mantic's current pricing, I made some assumptions.

1) Non-standard infantry would come in resin packs of 10, for $25, like the wraiths.
2) Light tanks would be equivalent to a warmachine, so $15.
3) Medium tanks would be equivalent to a regiments, so $25.
4) Regular infantry can be bought at quantities and prices of standard Mantic infantry.
5) Sniper Droneteam would be equivalent to a warmachine.
6) The Crisis Suit, being a heavy model, would be the equivalent of a Mounted Vampire.
7) Unit attachments and options are included with the plastic kit.

That being said:
1 Commander $20
1 Kroot Squad $25
2 Pirahnas @ $15 ea.
1 Pathfinder Team $25
1 Sniper Droneteam $15
1 Fire Warrior Team $25
1 Tau Stealth Team $25
1 Devilfish $25

Total: $190

Evaluation
Even with Mantic getting started isn't cheap, but the numbers speak for themselves. We haven't even considered the box sets, which could probably reduce the Mantic price even further. I didn't even include the Tau Codex and the cost of the rulebook!

I'm pretty sure that, by tailoring the army list, it might be possible to save a lot on the 40k list by choosing point-expensive options and keeping the squad sizes close to the box sizes, but it feels like cost dictates the army list more than strategy. It certainly would with me.

Anyways, hope you found this interesting.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: Nationality on June 19, 2011, 06:30:03 pm
Keep in mind, assuming a starter set is bought and all the models are used, the sets save about $40-50 versus buying each unit individually. This could mean a new set could cost as low as $150.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: gaarew on June 19, 2011, 07:41:04 pm
How about Dwarfs, as it is an easy one -

GW Dwarf Battalion - 55

32 Dwarf Warriors
16 Missile Troops
Cannon Kit

Mantic Dwarf Warhost - 30

20 Dwarf Ironclads
20 Ironwatch
2 Cannon Kits

So, 12 less Warriors, but 4 more Missile Troops, (allowing 2x10), and an extra cannon kit.  For 25 less.  With that 25, you can add either the Storm of Iron or Forge Guard sets for 18, adding another 20 infantry and a cannon, or, for an extra 5, just get 2 Warhosts.

So... 

GW Dwarf Battalion - 55

32 Dwarf Warriors
16 Missile Troops
Cannon Kit

 2 x Mantic Dwarf Warhost - 60

40 Dwarf Ironclads
40 Ironwatch
4 Cannon Kits

So, that 5 gets you 8 Warriors, 24 missile troops and 3 cannons.


Really, no contest. 


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: asgard-studio on August 11, 2011, 03:39:51 pm
Bloody Hell!!! I knew Mantic were obviously cheaper, but until you put it into proper perspective, you just don't realise fully!! Gaarew, could you possibly knock up a quick comparison for the Undead?


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: gaarew on August 11, 2011, 06:14:43 pm
No problem -

All based on RRP.  

Games Workshop Vampire Counts Battalion

20 Skeleton Warriors (including Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician),
10 Ghouls (including Champion),
20 Zombies (including Standard Bearer and Musician) and
1 Corpse Cart.

Total = 60

King of War Undead Army set - 49.99

40 Skeletons with Command
20 armoured skeletal Revenants with Command
20 Ghouls
30 Zombies

So for 10 LESS... you lose the Corpse Cart, but gain 20 Skeletons, 20 Revenants, 10 Ghouls and 10 Zombies.  The 10 saved could go towards a Corpse Cart though (16.50)  So, down 1 chariot type monster, up 60 infantry.



Looking at it more closely, and opting for other Mantic Undead sets you could choose either 1 each or two of the Undead Warhost or Alternative Warhost, (30 each) or any 3 from the Omens of Death and/or Soultaker detatchments (20 each).

Undead Warhost (The cost of the Infantry alone from GW is 97.50, meaning that, rather than buying the contents of this set from GW, you could get 3 Mantic sets, and still have 7.50 left to buy Mhorgoth and a sausage roll...)

1 x Undead Skeleton Regiment (20 Figures with Command Group)
1 x Undead Revenant Regiment (20 Figures with Command Group)
1 x Ghoul Troop (10 Figures)
1 x Balefire Catapult Frame
1 x Catapult Crew Frame (2 FIgures)  

Alternative Warhost  (GW cost - 113...)

1 x Undead Skeleton Regiment (20 Figures with Command Group)
1 x Undead Revenant Regiment (20 Figures with Command Group)
1 x Ghoul Troop (20 Figures)

giving you any of -

(Two Warhosts)

40 Skeletons
40 Revenants
20 Ghouls
2 Balefires + Crew

(Two Alt Warhosts)

40 Skeletons
40 Revenants
40 Ghouls

(one of each)

40 Skeletons
40 Revenants
30 Ghouls
1 Balefires + Crew

You lose the Zombies and Corpse Cart, but get a huge amount of figures more.

The Omens of Death kit has 20 Skeletons and a Catapult (31+ from GW), whilst the Soultakers has 20 Revenants and 10 Ghouls (GW = 66.50)

giving you either -

60 Skeletons & 3 Balefires (3xOoD)  (GW = 93 plus 3 catapults)

60 Revenants & 30 Ghouls (3xST) (GW = 199.50   :o )

40 Skeletons, Balefire, 20 Revenants, 10 Ghouls (2xOoD, 1xST)  (GW = 128.50 + 2 catapults)

20 Skeletons, Balefire, 40 Revenants, 20 Ghouls (1xOoD, 2xST) (GW = 164 + catapult)


One final thing, if you were going to get the 3 Soul Taker detatchments from GW, at an astronomical 199.50, you'd be as well adding 50p to that and buying the Host of Dol Eragos army set at 200, containing - (GW price)

10 Wraiths  (72)
20 Revenant Cavalry  (158)
1 x Plastic Resin Wraiths (5 Figures) I suspect this may be a typo, but thats another 36...)
1 x Metal Revenant King (8.20)
2 Necromancer (16.40)
1 x Metal Undead Standard Bearer (8.20)
5 Vampire Knights - (61.50)
40 Skeletons (62)
40 Revenants (102)
40 Ghouls (62)
60 Zombies (61.50)
2 x Plastic Balefire Catapult with Crew

So, 200 from Mantic, or the 647.80 not including the Balefires from GW...


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: scarletsquig on August 13, 2011, 03:13:38 am
Best to stick with models that currently exist with price comparisons, IMO.

GW Grave guard are a nice easy target that I often use as an example now that they're 25 for 10. :)


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: gaarew on August 13, 2011, 06:48:11 am
Wait, what did I compare that doesn't?   ???


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: theunnamableone on August 13, 2011, 12:24:06 pm
this is a post i put up on the 40kforold men site back in april i believe, but it seemed to fit with this discussion,so here is my 1500pt Orc list (with price comparisons at rrp, cheaper at 40kforoldmen.com)
(note. this may have been before the price rises so it may be a little out)

Krudger (boss) on gore chariot with stabby sneek. 160pts
Krudger on gore with zappy sneek. 155pts
Stik waver (bsb) 30pts

Ax Horde with full command 195pts
Ax Horde with full command 195pts
Ax Horde with full command 195pts
Morax Regiment with full command 170pts
Morax Regiment with full command 170pts
Gore Chariot Troop with full command 115pts
Gore Chariot Troop with full command 115pts

Total 1500pts

Now i'd love to say that i have considered all the tactical options and come up with an uber hard balanced list. The truth is, the ax and morax units, along with krudger on gore, Zappy sneek and the stik waver all come in Gakamak's Green Tide. It's a winner IMO. over 130 plastic orcs plus the metal character set for £100! i compared it to gw prices and you would be amazed at the difference.

£13.80 for plastic warboss on boar and BSB
£ 8.20 for metal goblin shaman
£162.00 for 90 orc boyz
£82.00 for 40 black orcs
£22.50 for orc and goblin army book.
Total £288.50

compared to;

£99.99 for Gakamak's Green Tide
£00.00 for Orc army list (free download)

Total £99.99

total saving of £188.51

No Brainer really.

I dont know the prices for the chariots yet as they are not on Mantics site at the moment. GW's are £15.50 each. i would expect Mantic's to be around £18.00 for three or maybe cheaper.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: The Dwarf on August 14, 2011, 03:28:48 am
Hey guys... i dont really know about a size comparision, but how hard would be for anyone to convert a balefire catapult to a corpse cart?


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: lord marcus on August 14, 2011, 06:31:03 am
You'd need balsa wood and a good converting hand.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: gaarew on August 14, 2011, 06:36:28 am
Or you could get away with a few Zombies and some string.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: asgard-studio on August 14, 2011, 10:22:10 am
Cheers for the Undead comparison! 200 from MAntic compared to 600+ from GW??? That comparison = no comparison!!! Knew there was a reason I'd dropped GW like a mouldy fish after 20 years of loyalty, but it's so much more ratifying seeing it ACTUALLY WRITTEN DOWN!!!!

Incidentally, saw that GW Zombie Dragon yesterday, and the base size is ridiculous!!! Personally, I think it may be the response to having Mantic producing better Undead stuff- make Citadel models that can't be easily replaced with a MAntic one!


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: gaarew on August 15, 2011, 09:16:33 pm
Incidentally, saw that GW Zombie Dragon yesterday, and the base size is ridiculous!!! Personally, I think it may be the response to having Mantic producing better Undead stuff- make Citadel models that can't be easily replaced with a MAntic one!

Actually, you could pick up the new Vampire hero and a Zombie 3up for about the same price...    :P


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: The Dwarf on August 15, 2011, 11:45:58 pm
Hey gareew, i had not realied how those 3up models are usefull for things like that... Someone ever tried to use one of the dogs as (sry for GW reference) Thunder Wolf Cavalry?


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: theunnamableone on August 17, 2011, 12:26:31 pm
bit of shop plugging alert!!!!

looking through the price comparisons on this thread i came up with this on http://40kforoldmen.bigcartel.com/ (http://40kforoldmen.bigcartel.com/)

X2 undead army sets @75.20(total cost)
X1 revenant cavaly @19.70
X1 wraiths @21.40
X2 skeleton archers @21.75(total cost)
X1 revenant reg @9.25

so that's:

80 skeletons
60 revenants
40 ghouls
60 zombies
20 skeleton archers
10 wraiths
10 revenant cavalry

for 148.70 including second class postage in the UK.

Beat that GW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My wallet is not looking forward to the Warpath release........................



Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: gaarew on August 17, 2011, 12:56:43 pm

My wallet is not looking forward to the Warpath release........................


I bet kingfig's is when I put an order in...   :-\


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: NunsWithGunsFan on September 19, 2011, 08:35:36 am
Sorry to come into an old post, but I've just signed on to this forum.  My games group have been playing KoW regularly and having a lot of fun.

To add to the discussion, don't forget that with Warhammer, there is a very expensive rulebook, versus Mantic's free rules.  Also, you can't necessarily play WHFB with one battalion box...an army is probably going to be composed of several battalion boxes.  Mantic boxes allow you to start play immediately (short of assembly and painting) at a low points count.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: Gerry Lee on September 19, 2011, 09:02:07 am
Hello NunswithGunsFan,

Welcome to the forums! It's great to hear you have a thriving group of Kings of War players over there, awesome!

I actually like GW, but you bring up a good point. I signed up for a Warhammer tournament figuring I could use my Mantic undead, but had to buy the rule book and army book...110 dollar...yikes! Ha ha!


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: asgard-studio on October 19, 2011, 06:02:22 pm
I didn't even think GW allowed other companies models in their tournaments? Your rulebooks costs could be the least of the problems there! ;)


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: Buffirn on October 19, 2011, 09:01:13 pm
I didn't even think GW allowed other companies models in their tournaments? Your rulebooks costs could be the least of the problems there! ;)
GW does not, however, FLGS can be a bit more relaxed in their rulings.


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: Kent_Fury on October 21, 2011, 07:30:42 am
I will wade in here. Aus is far more relaxed because GW does nothing for us here except charge us the privilege of liking there product. Kind of an abusive relationship...(Kent sceams into the rain .... But I still love you).

In Aus it works out we pay 40-60% more than the uk and USA.

There are many forums and threads dedicated to the cost paratiy between GW and Mantic.

To give you an idea

My 2400 undead Mantic army would cost Aus RRP $380 GW $860

For an imperial guard army it works out almost $1 per point.

It's rubbish.... Why does GW do it to me... I just want him to love me like I love them but he just treats me like rubbish... And I still go back.... Sniff.

Fury


Title: Re: GW vs. Mantic, hypothetical cost comparison
Post by: mattjgilbert on October 21, 2011, 02:15:19 pm
Why does GW do it to me
And I still go back
I think you just answered your own question ;)