Mantic Fanatics

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nationality on May 20, 2011, 03:15:57 pm



Title: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Nationality on May 20, 2011, 03:15:57 pm
I'm eager to see what kind of take on humans Mantic will take. Based on a couple of assumptions: that the new human army must make good substitutes for WHFB Empire, and that so far, the factions have been analogous to a WHFB faction, I really think that Mantic will for the "landsknecht" (? did I spell that right) theme, but what I'm hoping they'll do is go for a more "English civil war" feel. What do you think?


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Robert on May 20, 2011, 03:35:34 pm
It might be a good move business wise if the models are a good fit for historical gaming as well.  Hence you cover the KoW, WHFB and historical gaming markets all in one go...

Though personally I love the visuals of Game of Thrones, could see some great human armies inspired from it...

or something like this... 

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aQ0WpKAoH0w/TaYWE-vlzbI/AAAAAAAAANQ/WXgAsXSEs1A/s1600/gnwgun.jpg)


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: scarletsquig on May 20, 2011, 03:49:31 pm
I really think that Mantic will for the "landsknecht" (? did I spell that right) theme, but what I'm hoping they'll do is go for a more "English civil war" feel. What do you think?

I want landsknecht style. Lots of puffy sleeves! GW has moved away from that style in recent years and the Empire state troops currently look like idiots in pyjamas covered in skulls rather than proper soldiers. I'm not placing high odds on mantic using this style though, they tend to to their own thing.

The Perry's already have English Civil War styled plastic miniatures, mantic also making a range of them would be redundant.

I just want to see a nice simple sprue of human soldiers, like the warhammer plastic state troops that the perrys sculpted back in 5th edition.

If mantic get this right I am literally on the cards to buy at least a thousand models. Empire was my main fantasy army for army, but I just do not like the sculpts GW made for 7th edition (and they probably won't be replaced for another decade or so either).


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Croaker on May 20, 2011, 03:55:13 pm
I would love something with a dark fantasy feel.  Really gritty, maybe a little OTT, but nothing like the Evil Empire of Gaming's SKULZZ everywhere.
Something that is not historical, but could have come out of any of those fanstasy epic series. 
Something which could be either good or evil.

I think of all of those early hero miniatures from the 80's (from many copanies) and think "What is the army like where they come from?" or "what would an army made up entirely of these types be like?"

I'd really say ditch the historical, get far away from that Germanic pseudo-historical stuff and give us something new and really interesting.
They can still be easily used as replacements for that 'other game', guys with spears, guys with crossbows, guys with double handed swords, etc.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: gaarew on May 20, 2011, 11:22:44 pm
I reckon the style will be based on Paladins.


Pure conjecture based on nothing more than Ronnie's words at the Open Day.   :P


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Estarriol on May 23, 2011, 08:57:35 pm
I'd love it to be a desert culture. No one's every really done an Arabian Nights sort of army... Djinn, magic carpets, would be awesome, and nicely different from everything else, and it would fit into an unused culture in WHFB.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Cyporiean on May 23, 2011, 09:51:00 pm
I'd love it to be a desert culture. No one's every really done an Arabian Nights sort of army... Djinn, magic carpets, would be awesome, and nicely different from everything else, and it would fit into an unused culture in WHFB.

Warmaster had that, looked pretty cool. I think it was called Arabi or something close to that.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Estarriol on May 23, 2011, 10:51:53 pm
it did indeed :) Araby. But that's warmaster, and after specialist games were put out in the cold, so they never really made it into the hobby. There is a lovely Araby army in the Monsters and Mercenaries collector's guide: http://www.justinhillauthor.com/fragilearmytransportbag/sultan%20marhaba%27s%20araby%20army.htm (http://www.justinhillauthor.com/fragilearmytransportbag/sultan%20marhaba%27s%20araby%20army.htm)


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Murdock129 on May 25, 2011, 08:36:51 pm
Well I won't say what I expect, but I'll write down the types I'd love to see:

Samurai Human Army
Arabian Human Army
Celts/Wildmen Human Army
Atlantean Humans (With Fishmen and sea monster allies)

All four armies have potential and of the four of them only Wildmen/Celts have been done a lot. Samurai, Arabians and Atlanteans haven't been done very often in wargaming and have the ability to be unique.

Samurai based armies have a lot of Asian creatures, a lot of Japanese culture and Shinobi as possibilties.
Arabians have such things as Camel Riders, Elephants, Djinn and the like as possibilities
Wildmen and Celts have a lot of different types of troops and creatures from all across European cultures as possibilities
Atlanteans would be pretty unique and flexible in design, plus the aforementioned fishmen and sea monsters as possibilitles


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Nightsword on May 26, 2011, 01:10:48 pm
I always thought the Elves had an Atlantean feel to them in terms of their intricate armour and the swirling pattern of the  spear shafts.

Of course, there's also the "Sea Horse" thing with the Drakon's, so they've already got a water-based mount  ;D


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Idle Thought on May 31, 2011, 11:44:52 pm
Another take on an Atlantean theme could perhaps be something darker...

When I think fishmen my mind turns to Lovecraft, a human army in the service of some eldritch abomination might be interesting...

Cultist infantry and cavalry supported by deep one-esque fishmen and ancient horrors from the depths of the sea could be interesting and might appeal to horror RPG fans as well as wargamers.


regards,
IT


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Estarriol on June 01, 2011, 07:04:12 am
then the old (3rd ed) WHFB Slann might appeal, they ran short of warriors so captured humans, nuetered and lobotomised them and sent them forth as slave troops. always thought that was quite cool!


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Dobie on June 08, 2011, 08:17:43 pm
Something alike the landsknechts is interesting.
But how about mixing up the style of the troops during the 5th century (in the anglo-saxonian)
Imagine a roman legionary with sandals and a rifle! You can add Durids as mages, chariots (I love them!) and catapults shooting bombs!
It is a bit fantasy, yes. But it would be unique.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: gaarew on June 08, 2011, 09:58:10 pm
At the Open Day, I suggested something similar to the Vikings from the movie Pathfinder for an evil human race.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Manticore on June 09, 2011, 02:22:31 am
Vikings would be brilliant. Although a few other companies do plastic viking miniatures I would like to see mantics spin on them. What kind of war machines would they have?

Would be cool lo have a 'raping and pillaging' scenario with a few of these babies docked at the table edge:
(http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/neo/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Revell-Viking-Ship-e1282702071860.jpg)

A few houses/hovels/huts scattered around the table and you could be onto a winner!


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Llew on June 09, 2011, 02:33:58 am
OMG!  I used to have that model as a kid!  What I wouldn't give to have that thing back again, just for amusement's sake.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Ogait-Nas on July 16, 2011, 11:23:02 am
I think they'll go for a feudal knights. If I were Mantic, I would try to attract Imperial and Bretonian collectors. Besides, there are lots and lots of chances to develop both fire powered war machines and 'old' war machines like trebuchets and so on. So, they may base the new human army in a blend of those two WHFB armies with a touch of the nice Mantic's unique flavour.
The fluff can also be very attractive if they use the heroic adventures of humans during the crusades, etc.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: gaarew on July 16, 2011, 05:57:19 pm
Well it was mentioned at the Open Day that the original human release might incorporate an existing plastic kit from a current historical range, possibly in a Norman style. 

So, I'm guessing either Conquest Games Norman Knights, whom I beleive are also planning on realising light cavalry and infantry boxes, failing that, it could be something from the Perry's WotR line, as Ronnie is a huge fan of the models and prices, or Warlord, as they are very close.

Even further afield would be Gripping Beast or Wargames Factory.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Robert on July 16, 2011, 07:08:27 pm
Would be very interesting if it was the Perrys...those WotR look amazing... not sure what there employers would say about it though :-\


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: gaarew on July 16, 2011, 07:31:40 pm
not sure what there employers would say about it though :-\

I assume you mean GW, and not each other?   :P


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Robert on July 17, 2011, 11:32:39 am
not sure what there employers would say about it though :-\

I assume you mean GW, and not each other?   :P

 :D



Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Grimmeth on July 25, 2011, 03:37:30 pm
Samurai would be awesome - no-one makes any plastic feudal Japanese models that I know of.
I don't think the Germanic theme needs to be done any more, there's a  lot out there already that does this - I, like Robert, would like to see something more Game of Thrones inspired personally.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: gaarew on July 25, 2011, 08:34:14 pm
Zvesda make plastic Samurai.


Of course, they are 20mm scale, and bendy plastic...   ;D


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Gerry Lee on July 25, 2011, 09:06:37 pm
Zvesda make plastic Samurai.


Of course, they are 20mm scale, and bendy plastic...   ;D

I painted a bunch of Zvezda stuff for 'Warhammer Ancient Battles'. They seemed like a cheap way to play miniature games. For all their faults (soft plastic, hard to glue, paint chipping) they weren't as bad as I heard they were.

But thank all the Gods that Mantic came along and made 28mm high quality fantasy models!

On the subject of Mantic Humans, I am wondering if Ronnie Renton is going to take into account the gear on the Undead Skeletons. If he is, then we will see early medieval or dark ages chain mail troops, which could be very cool! A Crusades style army as the 'Good' humans could be very nice!

On the other hand, who knows how long those skellies were buried? The armor might be centuries old...


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Grimmeth on July 26, 2011, 09:40:43 am
Feudal, Medieval Humans would be nice - leave Dwarves with their new fangled technology and stick with peasants and knights.
Or give the knights guns...


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: The Dwarf on August 15, 2011, 02:33:47 am
Knights, peasants, wizards: arthur and the round table, Brettonia.

OR

Something really new that will sell like water: oriental themed army, with models that could be used as "count as" imperial armies...


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: sasheep on August 15, 2011, 11:53:05 pm
I think the game of thrones idea is great, would love to have the Stark's army of the north. Make some rangers, some knights, wildlings and all of that jazz. Hmm could do a Dothraki army instead. Horselords would be such a cool army. 

Oriental themes could be cool too; ninjas, samurai, peasant farmers.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: scarletsquig on August 16, 2011, 12:05:55 am
I think the game of thrones idea is great, would love to have the Stark's army of the north. Make some rangers, some knights, wildlings and all of that jazz. Hmm could do a Dothraki army instead. Horselords would be such a cool army. 

Oriental themes could be cool too; ninjas, samurai, peasant farmers.
Yeah, I completely agree.. I'd love to have a Lannister army... I'd paint them all blonde. :D

Check out battles of westeros from FFG.. they already do have a ton of game of thrones models released in 25mm scale, albeit more as board game pieces than anything else. Still, I'm tempted to pick some up.

Then there's the 28mm dark sword models to cover the characters from the books. GRR Martin is pretty cool, he's into miniature collecting and funds the sculpting and painting of the models for his personal collection, which then go on general sale.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Hofferber on August 16, 2011, 12:59:44 am
In the case of humans, the possibility to create multiple armies is very large. Particularly, I love the thirteenth century, gives many possibilities.
On the other hand, we are talking about a fantasy world, so the aesthetics of Game of Thrones is perfect, as are Rohan or barbarians like the Vikings or Huns.
I think you should follow the example of AD&D Forgotten Realms (for example) there are territories with different cultures and human technological or magical advancement, and that greatly affects the time to make an army.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: The Dwarf on August 27, 2011, 07:35:48 pm
Hey Hofferber, thats because D&D alawys assume humanity is a "clay to be molded", they are always very generic and their cultures can go anyway...

That dont work very well in wargames (but can work) because a companie must make a range of miniatures for each different culture, and normally, add some special rules  for them too...

But would be great if we get a "generic human army" (game of thrones) and mantic started to add extra armies as add-ons kits: like chaos dwarfs and twilight kin, but with different human cultures ;)

Or even a bunch of different add-ons kits for cultures, and small rule changes for the human army... (like added units)


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: sasheep on August 28, 2011, 12:19:37 am
Yeah, I completely agree.. I'd love to have a Lannister army... I'd paint them all blonde. :D

Bah a Lannister man.  :P I am firmly in the Stark camp  :D

Quote
Check out battles of westeros from FFG.. they already do have a ton of game of thrones models released in 25mm scale, albeit more as board game pieces than anything else. Still, I'm tempted to pick some up.

Then there's the 28mm dark sword models to cover the characters from the books. GRR Martin is pretty cool, he's into miniature collecting and funds the sculpting and painting of the models for his personal collection, which then go on general sale.

Ooo cheers for that, they are pretty darn cool. May have to think of getting some. Have you played the game? It sound rather fun.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Llew on August 28, 2011, 04:22:44 am
Let me assure you that the Battles of Westeros minis are NOT scaled for playing anywhere near 25 or 28mm.  It's a neat game, and the minis are great for what they are, but I'd guess them closer to 20mm.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: sasheep on August 28, 2011, 06:37:17 pm
Ah fair enough. I still think I will get some just cause they have some stark models :)


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: lord marcus on August 29, 2011, 04:33:47 am
I'd love it to be a desert culture. No one's every really done an Arabian Nights sort of army... Djinn, magic carpets, would be awesome, and nicely different from everything else, and it would fit into an unused culture in WHFB.

I also would enjoy this immensly, if only to add to my undead army some conscripts.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: demyse on September 07, 2011, 09:21:27 am
Mantic would be foolish to do a human army that is not some way comparable to an existing GW human army, which leaves us with Bret, empire, or...... chaos.
Its highly likely that the humans would be neutral, as we dont have any yet, so we dont want a human army thats too goody goody, which leads me to think some kind of barbarian army.

well heres hoping


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Llew on September 07, 2011, 03:41:15 pm
It would be foolish to *try* to do an army that matches something GW does.

With non-human races, there are certain expectations about what they are and how they'll be.  They pretty much have to cover the elves, dwarves, etc.  With humans though, there's no such requirement.  In fact, it would be detrimental.  Really the only "unique" one is Chaos, and frankly, it's one that GW should be allowed to keep.  Unlike the non-human races, if they sell a human army, it needs to fill a niche that isn't already covered well, and it needs to bring something unique to the table.  Otherwise, you're just squabbling with historicals companies over shares of the same pie, and they can do it more cheaply. 

When Mantic does humans, more than any other line so far, it needs to have a distinct aesthetic and needs to sell on it's own merits.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Gerry Lee on September 07, 2011, 04:01:56 pm
I agree with Llew. I wanted a Nippon/Samurai list based on Japanese myth very much, but then Legend of the Five Rings came out and now Wargames Factory looks to be developing some very nice samurai. Mantic needs to do humans they can copyright I think, even if people make similar minis after the success of the line.

I was surprised to find out  that Tolkien said that Rohan had no historical counterpart. Peter Jackson's vision of Rohan was superb too. Something unique but with bits of the familiar, would be awesome:)

It would be an awesome use of the Fanatic's brain power to work on some suggested human cultures with bits of art and background to donate to Mantic. I know you all can come up with awesome and original peoples!

Gerry


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Hofferber on September 07, 2011, 06:14:05 pm
I agree with both Llew as Gerry. But I'd rather wait to see the complete list of humans who will come in the new manual. I think from that list each army can do that is closest to our tastes. But I think, and is only an intuition, it will be a Renaissance or medieval army.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Gerry Lee on September 11, 2011, 02:39:31 pm
Hi Hofferber,
Well, from what we are seeing in Tim King's exciting blog, the 'Kingdom of Men' (remember that phrase Alessio used for the Empire book he wrote?) does embrace Renaissance and Medieval troops. I hope very much it also contains older forms of humans like chariots, elephants, and horse archers, but if not there is always the hard back in 2012! Looks like you are right about the upper range of the tech and unit types:)

Gerry


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Hofferber on September 11, 2011, 04:50:55 pm
Hi Gerry

Alessio is Italian... and the Renaissance is the golden age of the Italian country, and it was not difficult to guess.
But I would like to see different versions of the human hosts, to me it would be interesting to see that over time as new lists come out of the wood elves, barbarians, etc ...

You can tell I'm enthusiastic about Classic AD&D :-)


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Estarriol on September 22, 2011, 09:59:17 am
Having now read the human army list, there's scope to do pretty much whatever you like :)

Now, how to bribe Mantic into making Kislev medieval ruski sort of figures... Always fancied one of them armies.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: lord marcus on September 23, 2011, 09:35:11 pm
Oooh! Streetlet infantry would be ace


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: Buffirn on September 28, 2011, 10:15:20 pm
What about an army based upon Leonardo da Vinci to include tanks?

That would sertainly be different.


Title: Re: What do you think the theme of the human army will be?
Post by: gaarew on September 29, 2011, 01:08:48 am
Leo is in the Goblin list.